and then boston university asked me to come to direct the martin luther king african-american center. i did that all three years because the second year, the chaplain died. they asked me to take over as interim chaplain, and then in the third year, the dean of students lost his job, and i was also the dean of students at--on the campus. so it was great for me because one of the things i'd said to dr. silber, who was the president when i came to bu, was i would take the king center job, but i don't want to be relegated to mere african-american jobs. i want to be a part of this campus and community and university, and i think i bring skills that would allow me to be useful here. so immediately after the chaplain's death, he called me and put me in the chaplain and elevated me to dean of students, so it was a good experience. c-span: and the--the year again that you went to allen church? >> guest: i went to allen church in 1976, when the bishop asked me if i would come and pastor full-time, which i had never done and pretty much had made up my mind i wouldn't do that. a--as i said, i tho